How Mike Spivey Would Apply to Law School

In this episode of Status Check with Spivey, Mike is joined by Dr. Milana Hogan, Chief Talent Officer at Sullivan & Cromwell, and Rob Baker, a former law firm hiring committee member and BigLaw attorney, for a conversation about the increasingly front-loaded BigLaw recruiting process and what prospective and current law students should know about navigating it. Rob has held recruiting roles at large, medium, and boutique-sized law firms, while Dr. Hogan has spent nearly two decades at Sullivan & Cromwell working in talent, associate development, and recruiting.  

The group discusses how law firm recruiting has shifted earlier over time and the market pressures driving that change (7:41); whether hiring could move even earlier and why first-semester law school grades may serve as a practical stopping point (13:48); whether 0Ls should already be reaching out to firms and how to approach those conversations from a learning rather than a “will you hire me?” posture (17:13); the value of LinkedIn, low-pressure outreach, and building relationships before recruiting formally begins (20:53); and why the current system may create new opportunities for 2Ls and 3Ls who missed out earlier in the process (24:39).  

They also discuss how AI is affecting BigLaw work and hiring, including Sullivan & Cromwell’s use of AI as one part of its holistic hiring process (28:34); what can turn hiring partners off in an interview and why trying too hard to demonstrate how smart you are can backfire (31:47); the importance of curiosity, humility, and a willingness to learn from more experienced lawyers (34:45); and why students should take ownership of their careers, seek out opportunities, and practice interviewing before the real thing (37:52).

Related resources: Mike references NALP Executive Director Nikia Gray’s article, The “Cruel” Recruiting Timeline, which examines the history of OCI and the market forces behind the increasingly accelerated law firm recruiting process. He also references a South Park episode parodying Black Friday’s increasingly early start as an analogy for how BigLaw recruiting has continued moving earlier.

You can listen and subscribe to Status Check with Spivey on ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠, Spotify⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠. You can read a full transcript of this episode with timestamps below.

In this episode of Status Check with Spivey, Mike has a conversation with Simone Stolzoff, an author and journalist whose work explores uncertainty, ambition, and our relationship with work. Simone is the author of How to Not Know and The Good Enough Job. His latest book examines why uncertainty feels so uncomfortable and how developing a healthier relationship with not knowing can create opportunities for learning, growth, and possibility.

Simone discusses why our tolerance for uncertainty is declining (1:05), why uncertainty itself is not necessarily the problem (4:42), and why even experts are often poor at predicting the future (7:29). He also explains how applicants can avoid becoming overly attached to one particular school, job, or future by focusing on what they can control, preparing for multiple outcomes, and finding healthy ways to cope with waiting.

Additional topics include the three “certainty traps” of comfort, hubris, and control (10:22), how expertise can make people more vulnerable to overconfidence (14:47), practical ways to build uncertainty tolerance and trust your future self (16:36), why uncertainty can give life meaning and possibility (20:01), how rejection from a dream school or job may ultimately open unexpected doors (27:08), career changes and “unanswered prayers” (29:51), and why your job can be an important part of your life without becoming your entire identity (33:02).

You can listen and subscribe to Status Check with Spivey on ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠, Spotify⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠. You can read a full transcript of this episode with timestamps below.

In this episode of Status Check with Spivey, Anna Hicks-Jaco is joined by three experienced law school financial aid professionals: Dalmarie Lawrence, Director of Financial Aid at the University of the District of Columbia School of Law; Montré Everett, Director of Financial Aid at UC Davis School of Law; and Matt Wakeman, Assistant Dean of Financial Aid at the University of Virginia School of Law.

Together, they discuss how the student loan changes included in the One Big Beautiful Bill Act are affecting current and prospective law students, particularly following the elimination of Grad PLUS loans and the introduction of new federal borrowing limits.

The group explains what has changed for incoming law students, how part-time students may be affected, and why simply lowering law school tuition may be more complicated than it sounds. They also discuss how law schools are responding through scholarships, institutional aid, tuition freezes, loan repayment assistance programs, and other resources designed to help students manage the cost of attendance.

The conversation also covers how applicants can use ABA 509 reports to evaluate scholarship opportunities and identify financial safety schools, what students should know about private student loans, and how credit history and cosigners may affect their ability to borrow. The guests also explain why private loans may sometimes offer lower interest rates than federal loans, while emphasizing the risks they may create for students pursuing public service careers and Public Service Loan Forgiveness.

Additional topics include financial aid considerations for veterans and military dependents, the impact of the new rules on transfer and dual-degree students, the importance of borrowing only what is necessary, and practical strategies for reducing law school expenses through scholarships, budgeting, and early communication with financial aid offices.

You can listen and subscribe to Status Check with Spivey on ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠, Spotify⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠. You can read a full transcript of this episode with timestamps below.