Mid-Cycle Pep Talk & 2024-2025 Update from Mike...

In this episode of Status Check with Spivey, Mike gives a brief update and pep talk for current law school applicants during the 2024-2025 admissions cycle.

Mike mentions our podcast with world-renowned psychologist Dr. Guy Winch in this episode—you can listen to the full interview here: Dr. Guy Winch on Handling Rejection (& Waiting) in the Admissions and Job Search Process

You can listen and subscribe to Status Check with Spivey on ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠. A full transcript of this episode is below.

Welcome to Status Check with Spivey, where we talk about life, law school, law school admissions, and a little bit of everything. I want to talk about the remaining portion of this 2024-2025 cycle from a practical and strategic—but also almost a psychological—standpoint.

So, first, it's going to be tough. We'll likely end up a little bit below 20%, but there is going to be a substantial increase. I thought early on it would be around 12%. It'll be higher than that. It'll be 15 to 19 percent up. The grade point inflation is real, of course, and the LSAT inflation, for whatever reason, is real. There's a bigger increase at 165 and above, percentage-wise, than any other bandwidth.

So, you applied in a tough cycle. What does that mean? To begin with, it means nothing about you—of course. You're still the same person you were before the cycle, nor could you have predicted—nor did experts predict this would be as tough a cycle as it is. Certainly, we and others predicted this would be a tough cycle, but we didn't realize it would be right now up at 23.9%. No one thought it would have spiked as high as a 35% increase in applications.

Here's what it also doesn't mean. It also doesn't mean waves aren't coming. There are many, many, many admits that have to be made, because you only are seeing things from your perspective. You've never been a dean of admission. They have stresses, too. They have to fill classes. They've been admitting at a slow pace, too. So they have to make admits, and for a number of people listening, that means you're going to get admitted to a number of schools. For some people listening, that means you're going to get admitted to your dream school—maybe not on your timeline, maybe off the waitlist, maybe tomorrow.

And then for some people listening, this is my suggestion. It is not too late to apply to a few more schools. I want to give you all a compliment. Over the years, and particularly this year, I've noticed, and other people have noticed, that people are less rankings-focused. Someone corrected me the other day, I think rightfully so, on Reddit, and I, for the sake of ease, mentioned something about T14, and they were like, "That's outdated nomenclature." I would agree. I would say any ordinal number—"I got into the seventh-ranked school, and that's two better than the ninth-ranked school"—is ridiculously ill-worded nomenclature, because 7 to you may be 50 to me. So I would encourage you—it's free. I don't make any money off this; it's free—to go to our myrankbyspivey.com and maybe broaden your list of schools and apply to a few more.

It is not too late. Schools will still be doing a lot of admitting. And just so you know the timelines of these things, schools are going to be admitting people until literally August and the beginning of September.

I had a client of mine years ago, dream school was Stanford. They had matriculated to Michigan. Got the phone call from Stanford that they were admitted. They were in orientation at Michigan. And I said, you know, "What do you want? What do you want with your life and career?" and they said, "I want to see myself practicing in California, in this area," and I was like, "Then get in the car and drive. You will never remember those two days of driving. You will always remember your ultimate career goal."

So don't be afraid of late admits, because they're coming. Don't be afraid of having to make a couple of difficult decisions late. You get into two schools late, and you have to make a difficult decision. That's just going to be a tiny speck in your sort of lifelong story.

But I also want to end on this note. Don't be afraid of being wrong. And what I mean by that is, being wrong about a school. I applied to Princeton coming out of high school and didn't get in. I ended up going to Vanderbilt. I could never see myself having gone anywhere but Vanderbilt. People in my life who I love off the planet—I'm in Nashville right now. People who I love off the planet, some of my closest friends in the world, I never would have met had I gotten into my dream school. I never would have had the job I have and the career I have had I gotten into my dream school. I was a horrible Vanderbilt student. Maybe not so much my later years, but the first couple of years I cared about sports and friends and my girlfriend. So my grades suffered. I did not get into my top choice business school or my second choice business school. I got into my last choice business school.

If you want a better story, listen to Dr. Guy Winch. We'll link it. He's given three TED Talks with over 30 million views. He didn't get into a single PhD program in psychology when he applied. Not one. He applied to a safety school he had never heard of and didn't get in. So he went back and applied the next cycle and got in and proved to the world.

If you're going to bet on anyone, don't bet on a school that you don't know. Don't bet on someone saying, "Oh, you need to go to this school because it's ranked 13, and we think that means it's better than 15." Bet on your instincts, and bet on yourself. If you're listening to this, the odds are incredibly high you will get admitted to a school, or schools, or many schools. It might not be what you think is #1, but you're going to have admissions. You're probably going to have some denials, too. Don't use the word rejection. You're not being rejected. They don't know you. And this is my point: you know you.

If you feel like, at the end of the cycle, you have a couple of options, and you feel good about going to law school, I wouldn't play the game of waiting another cycle. I would go. And if you don't like the school you go to and you perform well, you can always transfer. Odds are, you won't even end up wanting to. I mean, I had so many students when I was at Vanderbilt and WashU who came in thinking they were going to "transfer up," who absolutely fell in love with the school they were at,—again, not their initial dream school.

So in a tough cycle, many waves of admits are coming. You'll miss some of those waves, highly likely; you'll be in some of those waves, highly likely, although maybe not when you want to. But you're also going to have a choice, and your choices are going to be more than you realize. "Do I pick a school from these schools? Do I think about applying next cycle? Do I think about going to a school and killing it there and betting on myself and transferring up?" So many schools have actually really good job prospects, more than I think you realize, if you start drilling into the job side data. "Or do I go to a school and kill it for three years, and bet on myself in the market? Someone who's going to polish my skills at law school, network and impress interviewers, and have a stellar career." That was me. I went to a middling business school I never thought I would go to, but I always knew I would have a business career.

And I think if you're listening to this—doing research, listening to podcasts, proactively seeking out expert advice—deep down, you probably know, despite what a school says to you in a tough cycle, odds are you're going to have a killer legal career, or you're going to do something with your law degree that's going to position you to be successful in your life. And let me end with saying: I do not define success as how much do you make or what firm do you work for. I define success as, how passionate are you about something? There's no competitive cycle that can make you less passionate about being a lawyer, an advocate for other people, a litigator, someone who kills it in business law and mergers and acquisitions. Nothing about this cycle can change that.

You will get an admit. Admits are coming. If you covered all your bases and made, or continue to make, smart school lists with a healthy range of options, you're going to get an admit. You will get options. We've gone over the options. At the end of the day, the word that matters in this whole thing is nothing other than you.

Marcus Aurelius said, one of the human superpowers is—you're allowed to not have opinions about things. So I would invite you to not have an opinion about the competitiveness of the cycle. It is competitive, but I would have an opinion that, no matter how competitive, your long-term outlook is what you make it.

I hope this was helpful. This was Mike Spivey at the Spivey Consulting Group.

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September 8, 2026

Interview Prep for Law School Admissions, with Meg Krishnan

In this episode of Status Check with Spivey, Anna Hicks-Jaco is joined by Spivey consultant Meg Krishnan, former Director of Admissions and Programs at UChicago Law, for a conversation about preparing for law school admissions interviews. Meg spent nine admissions cycles at UChicago Law, ultimately running the school’s interview program and personally conducting thousands of admissions interviews. She shares what admissions offices are looking for in interviews and how applicants can prepare in a way that feels confident, natural, and intentional.

They discuss the different roles interviews can play in the admissions process and the different formats applicants may encounter (3:51); what an interviewer may review from your application before speaking with you (6:55); how to prepare your “why law” answer using Meg’s “ghosts of Christmas” framework of past, present, and future (9:08); and how to start researching and preparing for “why this law school?” questions well before receiving an interview invitation (12:18). Meg also shares a simple method for keeping track of school-specific research over time (15:52); what to prioritize once you actually receive an interview invitation, from logistics to reviewing your own application materials (19:35); and why applicants should practice from bullet points rather than scripting and memorizing their answers (24:28).

Anna and Meg also dive deeper into what makes a strong “why X” answer and the importance of connecting what a law school offers back to your own experiences and strengths (28:54); common interview mistakes and how to recover when something goes wrong (31:55); strategies for building confidence before an interview, including an exercise from psychologist Dr. Guy Winch (41:09); and practical ways to reduce distracting filler words and become more comfortable with pauses (43:36). They close with advice on taking care of yourself throughout the process, learning how to reset after a difficult moment, and remembering that receiving an interview invitation itself means the law school is interested in you (51:43).

A note on interview formats: Much of the advice in this episode is most directly applicable to invited interviews and one-on-one interviews with a human interviewer. However, many of the preparation strategies discussed also apply to other formats, including Kira and other prerecorded interviews.

Related resources: For a broader overview of law school interviews, including different interview formats and additional preparation advice, see our Interview Strategy Deep Dive with Former Law School Admissions Officers podcast. For more on the types of questions applicants may encounter, listen to Five Categories of Law School Admissions Interview Questions & How to Answer Them, with former Harvard Law Director of Admissions Karen Buttenbaum—including a bonus sixth category of curveball questions.

For more advice and resources on researching individual law schools and developing a strong, differentiated “why X,” see our Why X Essay Deep Dive: Advice from Former Law School Admissions Officers podcast episode. Anna also references our earlier conversation with psychologist Dr. Guy Winch, Dr. Guy Winch on Handling Rejection (& Waiting), which includes the confidence exercise discussed in this episode.

You can listen and subscribe to Status Check with Spivey on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. You can read a full transcript of this episode with timestamps below.

August 25, 2026

Dr. Gabor Maté on Self-Doubt, Stress, Anxiety, & the Pressure to Succeed (Re-Release)

Originally published in 2021, this conversation with Dr. Gabor Maté explores self-doubt, stress, anxiety, addiction, and the pressures that can come with pursuing ambitious academic and professional goals.

Mike Spivey speaks with Dr. Maté, world-renowned physician and author of In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, When the Body Says No, and The Myth of Normal, about how these challenges can affect prospective law students and others navigating high-pressure environments.

One of Dr. Maté’s insights for prospective and incoming law students:

“You're going to look at all your confident classmates, and you're going to go in there with all manner of self-doubt. You're making the big mistake of comparing their outside with your inside. You have no idea what their inside is like. And believe me, you're not the only one.”

This episode is a re-release of our 2021 conversation with Dr. Gabor Maté.

Law School Preparation

August 11, 2026

Inside BigLaw Hiring with Dr. Milana Hogan, Sullivan & Cromwell Chief Talent Officer

In this episode of Status Check with Spivey, Mike is joined by Dr. Milana Hogan, Chief Talent Officer at Sullivan & Cromwell, and Rob Baker, a former law firm hiring committee member and BigLaw attorney, for a conversation about the increasingly front-loaded BigLaw recruiting process and what prospective and current law students should know about navigating it. Rob has held recruiting roles at large, medium, and boutique-sized law firms, while Dr. Hogan has spent nearly two decades at Sullivan & Cromwell working in talent, associate development, and recruiting.

The group discusses how law firm recruiting has shifted earlier over time and the market pressures driving that change (7:41); whether hiring could move even earlier and why first-semester law school grades may serve as a practical stopping point (13:48); whether 0Ls should already be reaching out to firms and how to approach those conversations from a learning rather than a “will you hire me?” posture (17:13); the value of LinkedIn, low-pressure outreach, and building relationships before recruiting formally begins (20:53); and why the current system may create new opportunities for 2Ls and 3Ls who missed out earlier in the process (24:39).

They also discuss how AI is affecting BigLaw work and hiring, including Sullivan & Cromwell’s use of AI as one part of its holistic hiring process (28:34); what can turn hiring partners off in an interview and why trying too hard to demonstrate how smart you are can backfire (31:47); the importance of curiosity, humility, and a willingness to learn from more experienced lawyers (34:45); and why students should take ownership of their careers, seek out opportunities, and practice interviewing before the real thing (37:52).

Related resources: Mike references NALP Executive Director Nikia Gray’s article, The “Cruel” Recruiting Timeline, which examines the history of OCI and the market forces behind the increasingly accelerated law firm recruiting process. He also references a South Park episode parodying Black Friday’s increasingly early start as an analogy for how BigLaw recruiting has continued moving earlier.

You can listen and subscribe to Status Check with Spivey on ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠, Spotify⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠. You can read a full transcript of this episode with timestamps below.

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Mid-Cycle Pep Talk & 2024-2025 Update from Mike Spivey

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Mid-Cycle Pep Talk & 2024-2025 Update from Mike Spivey

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